20090415Transcript - Revision history

Ray N at 14:02, 23 August 2009

2009-08-23T14:02:03Z

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			[[Category:Development]]
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	10:02 jimbodude alright. lets get this show on the road shall we?		10:02 jimbodude alright. lets get this show on the road shall we?

Jondecker76 at 16:25, 15 April 2009

2009-04-15T16:25:59Z

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	[11:34] <jimbodude> Zaerc: no problem.		[11:34] <jimbodude> Zaerc: no problem.
	[11:35] <jimbodude> I'm pretty excited about this project, anything I can do to help is a plus for everyone.		[11:35] <jimbodude> I'm pretty excited about this project, anything I can do to help is a plus for everyone.





			jondecker76 Note:
			Unfortunately I was unable to attend this meeting, but reading through the transcript, I wanted to add my thoughts:
			- I am in the US/Eastern Timezone and definitely interested in future meetings
			- Regarding IR codes issues - As of this last week, IR/GSD codes are correctly fetched from schema.linuxmce.org. I am working on bugs in editing existing IR codes, as well as checking in new IR codes.
			- In the next couple of weeks, the socket layer to LM should be complete. I will get with Thom when I have hooks in for him to make a plasmoid to return to LMCE from KDE

Jimbodude at 15:38, 15 April 2009

2009-04-15T15:38:44Z

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Tkmedia at 15:37, 15 April 2009

2009-04-15T15:37:59Z

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	[10:08] *** Channel modes: secret, no messages from outside		[10:08] *** Channel modes: secret, no messages from outside

Tkmedia at 15:36, 15 April 2009

2009-04-15T15:36:46Z

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	~~<pre>~~		[10:08] --> You have joined the channel #linuxmce-meeting (n=tkmedia@c-75-69-169-56.hsd1.ct.comcast.net).
	~~(10:17:56 AM) TSCHAKeee: erf~~		[10:08] *** Channel modes: secret, no messages from outside
	~~(10:18:03 AM) jimbodude: morning TSCHAKeee. :)~~		[10:08] *** This channel was created on 04/15/2009 10:06:47 AM.
	~~(10:18:04 AM) hari: jimbodude: autossh might be another option~~		[10:08] --> totallymaxed has joined this channel (i=51892222@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f5a21145926c5205).
	~~(10:18:08 AM) hari: to replace the old scripts~~		[10:08] *** Zaerc gives channel operator privileges to you.
	~~(10:18:27 AM) dlewis: TSCHAKeee: got my text? lol~~		[10:08] *** Zaerc gives channel operator privileges to totallymaxed.
	~~(10:18:28 AM) hari: technically RA is quite simple, it just logs onto the central server with ssh/pubkey and forward some ports back to the local installation~~		[10:08] <jimbodude> alright, I think we're back to where we were with attendance.
	~~(10:18:42 AM) hari: works through NAT, we just need a mechanism to assign tcp ports on the server~~		[10:10] <jimbodude> so, from time to time it may be nice to have a straw-poll vote. there will be a question followed by options in (). pick an option, say that. if you'd like to talk about your choice, also say "with rights" and we'll let you talk some more before moving on.
	~~(10:19:08 AM) hari: if sb wants to take on that for 0810, fine, server and such is there. If not, let's deactivate the buttons in the web admin and orbiter UI~~		[10:10] <jimbodude> this keeps the vote quick.
	~~(10:19:14 AM) jimbodude: ok, sounds like we have some discussion needed about RA - remind me to bring it up when we get to design discussions. for now - lets plow through the bugs really fast.~~		[10:10] <tkmedia_2> hang on
	~~(10:19:41 AM) TSCHAKeee: dlewis: yup thanks~~		[10:10] <jimbodude> with that, on to status.
	~~(10:19:57 AM) hari: re #160, the build works on linux with some dependencies~~		[10:10] <jimbodude> go ahead.
	~~(10:20:13 AM) hari: it will be integrated into the external add-on build system soonish~~		[10:10] <tkmedia_2> are we exlcuding people who planned to log this
	~~(10:20:26 AM) jimbodude: ok. are you working on that hari?~~		[10:11] <tkmedia_2> or should we post a log for them
	~~(10:20:28 AM) hari: till then, there is a place where sambuca drops~~		[10:11] <jimbodude> I'm not sure what you mean... I was planning on posting a transcript when we're done anyway.
			[10:11] <jimbodude> yes.

Tschak909: pre tags.

2009-04-15T15:34:13Z

pre tags.

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	(10:17:56 AM) TSCHAKeee: erf		(10:17:56 AM) TSCHAKeee: erf
	(10:18:03 AM) jimbodude: morning TSCHAKeee. :)		(10:18:03 AM) jimbodude: morning TSCHAKeee. :)
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	(11:32:44 AM) totallymaxed: Nope...good job jimbodude		(11:32:44 AM) totallymaxed: Nope...good job jimbodude
	(11:32:45 AM) jimbodude: haha there's one way to avoid writing docs... :P		(11:32:45 AM) jimbodude: haha there's one way to avoid writing docs... :P
			</pre>

Tschak909: Transcript added by tschak.

2009-04-15T15:33:40Z

Transcript added by tschak.

New page

(10:17:56 AM) TSCHAKeee: erf
(10:18:03 AM) jimbodude: morning TSCHAKeee. :)
(10:18:04 AM) hari: jimbodude: autossh might be another option
(10:18:08 AM) hari: to replace the old scripts
(10:18:27 AM) dlewis: TSCHAKeee: got my text? lol
(10:18:28 AM) hari: technically RA is quite simple, it just logs onto the central server with ssh/pubkey and forward some ports back to the local installation
(10:18:42 AM) hari: works through NAT, we just need a mechanism to assign tcp ports on the server
(10:19:08 AM) hari: if sb wants to take on that for 0810, fine, server and such is there. If not, let's deactivate the buttons in the web admin and orbiter UI
(10:19:14 AM) jimbodude: ok, sounds like we have some discussion needed about RA - remind me to bring it up when we get to design discussions. for now - lets plow through the bugs really fast.
(10:19:41 AM) TSCHAKeee: dlewis: yup thanks
(10:19:57 AM) hari: re #160, the build works on linux with some dependencies
(10:20:13 AM) hari: it will be integrated into the external add-on build system soonish
(10:20:26 AM) jimbodude: ok. are you working on that hari?
(10:20:28 AM) hari: till then, there is a place where sambuca drops the jar
(10:20:44 AM) hari: jimbodude: yes, also the symbian v2 and v3 build
(10:20:54 AM) hari: will automate those three builds
(10:21:20 AM) jimbodude: alright - could you note that status on the ticket?
(10:21:40 AM) Zaerc: doesn't seem like a "blocker" to me
(10:21:50 AM) hari: there is no ticket for the auto build system yet
(10:22:11 AM) hari: worst case i'll do a manual run for the v2 and v3 orbiters for the beta/release
(10:22:27 AM) jimbodude: Zarec: yes, it could probably be downgraded to somewhere around major.
(10:22:27 AM) hari: and the actual jar for the javamo resides on download
(10:23:04 AM) hari: jimbodude: we shall ask sambucca if he wants to document place of the jar in the ticket
(10:23:06 AM) jimbodude: ok. so 160 is being addressed well. perfect. any other comments on 160?
(10:23:27 AM) TSCHAKeee: nope.
(10:23:28 AM) hari: i think the worst bugs are the ones we have no tickets for yet ;-p
(10:23:34 AM) jimbodude: hari: sure... I have no idea what's going on there... I just wrote the agenda... :P
(10:23:41 AM) jimbodude: hari: getting to that... ;)
(10:23:43 AM) mode (+o TSCHAKeee ) by dlewis
(10:23:52 AM) hari: jimbodude: my most important thing for this conference
(10:24:00 AM) hari: we need to find and nail down outstanding bugs
(10:24:10 AM) hari: and isolate non-finished features
(10:24:29 AM) hari: but it is too much for a single person to test all things at a time
(10:24:34 AM) hari: ppl would get crazy
(10:24:41 AM) hari: and not everybody has all stuff in his installation
(10:24:56 AM) jimbodude: so the drift I'm getting is that visiting individual bugs is not doing it for you guys - sound correct? shall we just skip into the meat? (yes | no)
(10:25:08 AM) hari: there was a status page, i think it is in our wiki, derived from pluto, with 1-5 for implementation status
(10:25:24 AM) hari: jimbodude: i'm fine reviewing individual bugs first
(10:25:34 AM) hari: but i really want that topic adressed today, too
(10:25:38 AM) Zaerc: jimbodude: yes
(10:25:49 AM) dlewis: i'm with Zaerc
(10:26:01 AM) jimbodude: alright - well lets just go to the interesting stuff then. I'm bored with bugs too...
(10:26:27 AM) Zaerc: ok
(10:26:45 AM) hari: so, that overview gave nice sections
(10:26:49 AM) hari: for ha, telephony, media, ...
(10:26:56 AM) hari: we need to enrich it, with specific test cases
(10:27:11 AM) hari: and then assign at least 2 ppl for each test case/group
(10:27:16 AM) hari: does that sound reasonable?
(10:27:24 AM) jimbodude: yes, I like it a lot.
(10:27:26 AM) hari: so we would be able to do a "full" test run in say 2-3 days
(10:27:32 AM) hari: and have every subsystem checke
(10:27:52 AM) hari: we do 2 or 3 iterations of that over the next weeks
(10:28:11 AM) hari: that should (*hope*) give us a clear picture where we are and what needs to be fixed first
(10:28:23 AM) Zaerc: fiire claimed they had developed all these wonderful test cases... but I guess they took them to their grave
(10:28:49 AM) hari: Zaerc: what i've seen from aaron for now, i really appreciate his genius, but testing seems to be the same like sales for him
(10:28:56 AM) hari: :-p
(10:29:25 AM) hari: and when we look at the regression numbers in the 0710 betas...
(10:29:27 AM) uplink-lmce [n=uplink-l@host81-137-34-33.in-addr.btopenworld.com] entered the room.
(10:29:34 AM) hari: btw, the mantis is available as www/mantis-deact
(10:29:41 AM) hari: i pulled it from public as it is exploitable
(10:29:42 AM) totallymaxed: I think the 'test cases' were more Pluto driven than Fiire to be franks
(10:29:54 AM) jimbodude: hari: have you started putting any of this together yet? in written form?
(10:29:57 AM) tkmedia_2: my production system mostly 0810 now and have lots to test
(10:30:05 AM) hari: jimbodude: yup, in this channel :-)
(10:30:16 AM) jimbodude: good start. :)
(10:30:27 AM) Zaerc: fiire != aaron
(10:31:15 AM) Zaerc: but as we've never even seen them there is little point in beating adead horse
(10:31:26 AM) totallymaxed: sure...but Fiire was just a marketing front ;-)
(10:31:48 AM) hari: brb
(10:31:51 AM) jimbodude: alright, so we need to write up some tests.
(10:31:53 AM) Zaerc: I'll just have to take your word for that
(10:31:54 AM) fido [n=fido@cpc2-glen1-0-0-cust693.belf.cable.ntl.com] entered the room.
(10:31:58 AM) fido left the room.
(10:32:43 AM) tkmedia_2: 1. squeezeboom tested sucessfully on 0810 this AM
(10:32:43 AM) jimbodude: everyone agree with the basics of hari's plan?
(10:33:06 AM) tkmedia_2: pnp
(10:33:32 AM) Zaerc: fine with me
(10:33:41 AM) totallymaxed: sure
(10:33:49 AM) dlewis: I agree
(10:34:01 AM) tkmedia_2: sure
(10:34:08 AM) jimbodude: hari: want to take the lead on that? I'm available to help as you see fit.
(10:34:46 AM) jimbodude: he'll answer when he gets back...
(10:35:12 AM) jimbodude: next agenda topic is release scheduling.
(10:35:31 AM) TSCHAKeee: whoa, we have a schedule?
(10:35:38 AM) jimbodude: basically, I see a release schedule as a way to focus developer efforts - even if it changes all the time.
(10:35:41 AM) TSCHAKeee: *walks-around-all-dazed*
(10:35:47 AM) jimbodude: TSCHAKeee: nope. that's why I put it on there.
(10:35:53 AM) TSCHAKeee: ;)
(10:36:08 AM) Zaerc: TSCHAKeee: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Meeting1Agenda
(10:36:21 AM) TSCHAKeee: I know, i was being sarcastic. ;)
(10:36:32 AM) Zaerc: oh you meant release-schedule
(10:36:52 AM) jimbodude: generally speaking, if software projects want to be successful, they have a schedule - even if it's fairly vague.
(10:37:07 AM) hari: jimbodude: want, yes, can, no
(10:37:21 AM) jimbodude: what do you guys think about pulling together some milestones and dates for 0810 - even if we don't tell anyone about them?
(10:37:29 AM) Zaerc: heh, I remember setting a rough date for the beta a few months ago
(10:38:00 AM) colinjones [i=9665c9a9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cfa01ade4796ad9b] entered the room.
(10:38:00 AM) jimbodude: ok hari - I'll take point on it for now then. we can move it around later.
(10:38:02 AM) Zaerc: since then I feel we've only been moving away from the beta
(10:38:15 AM) mode (+o colinjones ) by Zaerc
(10:38:48 AM) colinjones: :) ignore me, just catching up on the dev thread... too tired and drunk to contribute!
(10:39:01 AM) jimbodude: I'm not sure "moving away" is quite right - a lot has come up, and a lot of new features are being added.
(10:39:27 AM) Zaerc: well, that's what I call moving away
(10:39:33 AM) totallymaxed: my feeling is that we need some kind of schedule...
(10:39:36 AM) jimbodude: it seems, to me, that a lot of the issues we're having we've had for quite a while and they just aren't getting addressed.
(10:40:07 AM) TSCHAKeee: the big one right now is getting media directors to boot
(10:40:35 AM) jimbodude: If there were some milestone targets - for instance "release alpha 3, fixing the following issues: blah blah blah, on such and whatever date"
(10:40:51 AM) jimbodude: we might be able to focus development power towards the ultimate goal.
(10:41:05 AM) totallymaxed: without a schedule we're just drifting...jimbodude seems like a good idea
(10:41:56 AM) jimbodude: any further thoughts?
(10:42:02 AM) Zaerc: TSCHAKeee: I was working on that
(10:42:35 AM) TSCHAKeee: ok
(10:43:02 AM) tkmedia_2: why isn't /Diskless_BuildDefaultImage.sh run in the post_install ?
(10:43:08 AM) jimbodude: do you guys want to pull something together here, delegate for later work, or not have a schedule?
(10:43:13 AM) Zaerc: but apparently we need a launch-manager instead of figuring the bootscripts out properly, so I kind of dropped it
(10:44:05 AM) Zaerc: (or whatever it's supposed to be called these days)
(10:44:13 AM) hari: Zaerc: i think both are way important
(10:44:23 AM) TSCHAKeee: jimbodude: I know what I need to do from my perspective. my big one is getting mame to work, since the other big ones that were initially on my plate are dealt with.
(10:44:39 AM) hari: Zaerc: otherwise we'd end up using dcewhisperer in the launchcore script ;-)
(10:44:45 AM) TSCHAKeee: but anything else anybody decides to put on my plate is cool, just let me know
(10:44:59 AM) totallymaxed: hari: great idea :-)
(10:45:01 AM) hari: but the actual qt/dce interwoven mess had to be cleaned up
(10:45:04 AM) jimbodude: well, I don't think the problem is people not doing their work - I think the problem is that tasks are getting overlooked because they don't have deadlines.
(10:45:07 AM) hari: totallymaxed: i knew you'd like it
(10:45:18 AM) Zaerc: dcewhisperer?
(10:45:22 AM) hari: totallymaxed: really, why not, everything is better than the crap we had (and nobody understood)
(10:45:26 AM) totallymaxed: :-)
(10:45:31 AM) jimbodude: can you guys stay on topic for me please? we can deal with design stuff later. we're talking about scheduling now.
(10:45:57 AM) TSCHAKeee: and it was. We now have a stable launching system again
(10:46:00 AM) Zaerc: ok
(10:46:13 AM) jimbodude: do you guys want to pull something together here, delegate for later work, or not have a schedule?
(10:46:14 AM) TSCHAKeee: and one that can have the necessary UI attached to it.
(10:46:23 AM) TSCHAKeee: I do.
(10:46:39 AM) hari: Zaerc: the bits that could not be implemented in bash to do dce communications
(10:46:44 AM) hari: so a bit of a GSD for bash :-p
(10:47:17 AM) totallymaxed: :-)
(10:47:21 AM) Zaerc: I don't see a need for it, but let's stay on topic
(10:47:40 AM) Zaerc: and maybe discuss that later
(10:47:48 AM) TSCHAKeee: i'm all for it, just give me stuff to do. I'll balance it with the remote work.
(10:48:11 AM) hari: yeah, schedule is important
(10:48:20 AM) hari: i always do stuff when approaching the deadline :-p
(10:48:27 AM) jimbodude: I don't think we're at the point of assigning work... but if we all agree that we want to get certain things done by a certain date, we can make sure nothing gets overlooked at least.
(10:48:44 AM) totallymaxed: agreed
(10:48:48 AM) jimbodude: is that the general consensus? no major objections?
(10:49:01 AM) Zaerc: none here
(10:49:19 AM) jimbodude: shall we start hashing something out now, or assign it as a task to someone?
(10:49:19 AM) TSCHAKeee: i'm cool
(10:50:18 AM) jimbodude: alright... so let's look into it a bit now.
(10:50:45 AM) jimbodude: let's talk about big things that don't work - not about why they don't work, just that they don't.
(10:51:04 AM) tkmedia_2: MD booting
(10:51:08 AM) jimbodude: what are the biggest broken things - with special focus on things that worked on 0710?
(10:51:41 AM) tkmedia_2: KDE desktop on MD
(10:52:02 AM) tkmedia_2: or lack there of
(10:52:13 AM) totallymaxed: How to get back to Orbiter from KDE
(10:52:29 AM) totallymaxed: ...if the LM is cli
(10:52:34 AM) Zaerc: click workspace 3 for now
(10:52:38 AM) TSCHAKeee: now that we have LM, I just make a plasmoid
(10:52:46 AM) TSCHAKeee: which will reorder the workspace correctly
(10:52:58 AM) jimbodude: ok, lets keep this out of fixes and design for a bit though.
(10:53:01 AM) jimbodude: just broken things.
(10:53:10 AM) hari: do we want/need kde?
(10:53:15 AM) Zaerc: is the KDE bar still visible through UI2?
(10:53:24 AM) jimbodude: Zaerc: I never see it.
(10:53:26 AM) hari: i mean do ppl use the desktop feature on the living room tv?
(10:53:27 AM) totallymaxed: desktop oversizing at HD resolutions...
(10:53:33 AM) tkmedia_2: i use my MD as daily computer using kde
(10:53:35 AM) TSCHAKeee: (the LM keeps track of the on screen orbiter, and can be used to reorder to the right places
(10:53:38 AM) TSCHAKeee: hari: I do.
(10:53:49 AM) totallymaxed: yes we do use the desktop on living room TV's
(10:53:50 AM) Zaerc: hari: yes amongst other things to use ktorrent
(10:54:12 AM) TSCHAKeee: all I need to do is talk to jondecker76 on the client socket protocol
(10:54:18 AM) TSCHAKeee: and I can make a plasmoid to do this correctly
(10:54:22 AM) jimbodude: ok, back to broken things - KDE stuff gets added to the list
(10:54:37 AM) TSCHAKeee: once i know what to do, it's only an hour or so of work.
(10:54:43 AM) totallymaxed: ...at HD resolutions like 720p or 1080i... the desktop is incorrectly sized on TV's
(10:54:44 AM) tkmedia_2: login problem on MD
(10:55:27 AM) TSCHAKeee: totallymaxed: yeah, it's somewhat ironic, we override everything, and in the process lose any automatic DPI info we need to display desktop fonts at the right size.
(10:55:43 AM) totallymaxed: correct TSCHAKeee
(10:55:46 AM) tkmedia_2: Auto detect of USBUIRT
(10:55:55 AM) jimbodude: how about some of the other components - like telecom... game... web admin...
(10:56:04 AM) jimbodude: tkmedia_2: I like your list... keep it rolling.
(10:56:29 AM) colinjones left the room (quit: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
(10:56:51 AM) tkmedia_2: ir codes in sqlcvs
(10:57:12 AM) TSCHAKeee: i think jondecker has been steadily hacking away at that one
(10:57:17 AM) tkmedia_2: yes
(10:57:37 AM) tkmedia_2: just want it on the the list
(10:57:53 AM) tkmedia_2: so it dont get missed
(10:58:05 AM) jimbodude: exactly.
(10:58:23 AM) jimbodude: it has a ticket too - which is nice. #119.
(10:58:31 AM) jimbodude: (we'll talk about that later)
(10:58:51 AM) jimbodude: alright, so I think that's a pretty complete list for now.
(10:58:59 AM) dlewis: we definitely need to work on upgrading telecom
(10:59:04 AM) tkmedia_2: serial detection
(10:59:06 AM) dlewis: making more devices PnP
(10:59:20 AM) jimbodude: ok, I guess we can make it more complete... :)
(10:59:29 AM) TSCHAKeee: now that we have a working media director phone combo
(10:59:31 AM) tkmedia_2: cisco 7070 wrong room problem
(10:59:39 AM) TSCHAKeee: telecom plugin bugs are really coming out of the woodwork
(10:59:40 AM) tkmedia_2: 7970
(11:00:28 AM) jimbodude: you guys just keep rolling - Now. someone needs to go through this list, prioritize it, assign things to milestones, and we need to agree on dates to hit the milestones.
(11:01:17 AM) dlewis: do we have a comprehensive list of telecom bugs?
(11:01:20 AM) tkmedia_2: Some issue with the sony changer.... certainly not release stoppers
(11:01:33 AM) jimbodude: I don't think this is the best place to do that - maybe someone could come up with a draft, and 2-3 of the lead devs could review it. does that sound reasonable? any takers?
(11:01:45 AM) jimbodude: dlewis: probably not - we're going to get to bug tracking next.
(11:01:50 AM) TSCHAKeee: the big show stoppers right now are media director support, and certain devices not popping up like the UIRT and ZWave devices.
(11:01:52 AM) tkmedia_2: I will test and put in trac
(11:02:01 AM) TSCHAKeee: (both serial devices)
(11:02:40 AM) jimbodude: I'm going to try to cut this in about a half hour to 40 minutes guys - just to keep it reasonable. after that, we can break out and dig in deeper on specific issues.
(11:03:03 AM) tkmedia_2: yes not sure if the pnp scripts get passed to my tv if using a usb/serial adapter
(11:03:12 AM) ***Zaerc agrees with TSCHAKeee, the rest can be fixed during the beta
(11:03:15 AM) jimbodude: so back to my previous two points on scheduling - anyone want to take the lead on that?
(11:03:32 AM) TSCHAKeee: please dear god anybody but me
(11:04:12 AM) jimbodude: I'm not in any position to assign a task like that... so someone is going to have to volunteer or it's going to be left.
(11:04:49 AM) Zaerc: ok I guess that means nobody feels like doing that, let's move on
(11:05:01 AM) jimbodude: alrighty then.
(11:05:38 AM) jimbodude: there's a note on the agenda from jondecker76 about update scheduling - we'll defer that until we have a release schedule...
(11:06:17 AM) jimbodude: I'm also going to jump over his points about installation number generation for now - he's documented his thoughts pretty well in the agenda.
(11:06:23 AM) jimbodude: to get to bug tracking.
(11:06:23 AM) TSCHAKeee: ok
(11:06:28 AM) Zaerc: I'm a bit surprised that he's not here
(11:06:47 AM) TSCHAKeee: probably at work
(11:07:12 AM) jimbodude: so, I'm noticing a LOT of issues that people just "know about" that aren't documented in Trac.
(11:07:27 AM) Zaerc: TSCHAKeee: since when is that an excuse? ;^)
(11:07:40 AM) ***TSCHAKeee whistles
(11:07:48 AM) jimbodude: I think that's a pretty bad practice with such a distributed team - we're losing track of what needs to be done.
(11:07:59 AM) TSCHAKeee: I wish there was a brain dump plugin for trac
(11:08:07 AM) jimbodude: it would be nice yes...
(11:08:07 AM) TSCHAKeee: yeah...
(11:08:12 AM) TSCHAKeee: you're right.
(11:08:26 AM) Zaerc: jimbodude: tbh I gave up on using trac a long time ago
(11:08:32 AM) jimbodude: and of course - I'm no angel... I just reported a bug yesterday that I've known about since I get 0810.
(11:08:39 AM) jimbodude: yes, I've noticed that Zaerc.
(11:08:53 AM) jimbodude: I think you're not the only one.
(11:09:00 AM) tkmedia_2: should i flood it with what i have ..... i did not want to burden with my trivial bugs
(11:09:08 AM) TSCHAKeee: yes please
(11:09:21 AM) jimbodude: yes. that's what the priority scale is for.
(11:09:34 AM) hari: we'd be lost without tracking
(11:09:37 AM) totallymaxed: Well I'll commit to adding anything we have here to Trac...
(11:09:47 AM) tkmedia_2: ok you asked for it
(11:09:52 AM) totallymaxed: :-)
(11:10:07 AM) TSCHAKeee: totallymaxed: yup, we're interested to see what you guys run into for 0810
(11:10:13 AM) TSCHAKeee: and half scared too
(11:10:15 AM) jimbodude: Trac can help us determine where to focus developer efforts, give newbies a place to start working on stuff, and tell us where the project stands.
(11:10:25 AM) jimbodude: it is essential that we use it - in my opinion.
(11:10:38 AM) tkmedia_2: ok what about working things
(11:10:56 AM) tkmedia_2: like the squeezboom
(11:11:04 AM) totallymaxed: well we have a full time Core dedicated to testing 0810 now... so the flow from us should be greater going forwards
(11:11:07 AM) tkmedia_2: so we dont duplicate effort
(11:11:19 AM) jimbodude: I suggest we draft and agree on a bug reporting policy. We also need someone to keep an eye out and make sure we're not throwing bugs under the rug and ignoring them.
(11:11:34 AM) TSCHAKeee: to tell you the truth, it's fucking amazing that we've gotten this far and not checked into the looney bin.
(11:11:41 AM) jimbodude: tkmedia_2: I'm not sure what you mean... there are no bug reports for things that work.
(11:11:53 AM) totallymaxed: TSCHAKeee: :-)
(11:12:12 AM) tkmedia_2: yes but how do know what works unless we test
(11:12:15 AM) jimbodude: right, TSCHAKeee, and as more people get added to the project, we're going to go nuttier.
(11:12:23 AM) tkmedia_2: and this is a new item
(11:12:28 AM) jimbodude: tkmedia_2: that's where hari's testing plan comes in.
(11:12:39 AM) tkmedia_2: k
(11:12:58 AM) jimbodude: tkmedia_2: patches should probably go through Trac also - so we have a ticket to reference the feature implementation.
(11:13:06 AM) tkmedia_2: many things have already been tested
(11:13:10 AM) jimbodude: but that's part of the policy that we haven't talked about yet.
(11:13:34 AM) jimbodude: tkmedia_2: right. and many things have not, or have not been tested well.
(11:13:51 AM) jimbodude: which is where the test plan comes in.
(11:13:55 AM) tkmedia_2: k
(11:14:10 AM) jimbodude: so back to defect tracking.
(11:15:04 AM) jimbodude: does that sound reasonable to everyone? report all bugs, prioritize correctly, keep the bug status up to date. do we want a written policy? something based on what I wrote earlier, something different?
(11:15:29 AM) TSCHAKeee: that's fine to me
(11:16:42 AM) Zaerc: fine with me too
(11:17:20 AM) jimbodude: Ok, I'll volunteer to pull together a policy and wiki that. It will be based on what I've written here: http://jimbodude.net/wiki/Bug_Reporting -
(11:17:35 AM) jimbodude: Any other comments on defect tracking?
(11:17:49 AM) Zaerc: I thought that already was the policy
(11:18:17 AM) Zaerc: yeah, anonymous users should only have read-only access
(11:18:28 AM) TSCHAKeee: (1) is it broken?
(11:18:37 AM) jimbodude: well, it's not really worded as a policy, and we never formally "agreed" on it. I'll reword it at bit and drop it on wiki.linuxmce.org
(11:18:43 AM) TSCHAKeee: (2) Put in Trac, so we know, and wait
(11:18:55 AM) TSCHAKeee: (3) or for big brownie points, hack on it and submit patch
(11:19:35 AM) jimbodude: Zaerc: yes I agree.
(11:19:42 AM) jimbodude: TSCHAKeee: yep, pretty much that.
(11:20:14 AM) Zaerc: TSCHAKeee: (1b) is it really broken?
(11:20:23 AM) jimbodude: alright. I'll pull that together. Zaerc, I can't help you with read only - you know better than I do who to talk to for that...
(11:20:51 AM) Zaerc: jimbodude: tried that...
(11:21:06 AM) jimbodude: any other comments here? if not, we're going to move on to the last topic - next meeting, if any - and be done here.
(11:21:07 AM) Zaerc: but it's hard to talk to people who don't listen
(11:21:44 AM) totallymaxed: Bi-weekly?
(11:21:54 AM) jimbodude: ok. so the big question is - more meetings? was this useful?
(11:22:04 AM) totallymaxed: Yes
(11:22:10 AM) jimbodude: I think it was.
(11:22:11 AM) Zaerc: yes
(11:22:33 AM) TSCHAKeee: I am reminded of a certain Dave Barry quote.
(11:22:37 AM) jimbodude: and I'll volunteer to continue pulling together agendas and such to keep them running.
(11:23:12 AM) jimbodude: Ok, so how far do we want to space these? week, 2 week, month, other?
(11:23:13 AM) TSCHAKeee: “If you had to identify, in one word, the reason why the human race has not achieved, and never will achieve, its full potential, that word would be "meetings” -Dave Barry
(11:23:21 AM) dlewis: yes, very useful
(11:23:37 AM) totallymaxed: 2 week looks good
(11:23:48 AM) TSCHAKeee: yeah, 2 week is fine.
(11:24:08 AM) tkmedia_2: or weekly to start
(11:24:12 AM) totallymaxed: TSCHAKeee: nice quote ;-)
(11:24:53 AM) jimbodude: maybe next week to pull together some of the big things we have discussed here - like testing plan, scheduling, defect policy, then bi-weekly after that?
(11:24:54 AM) Zaerc: I'd say weekly, keep 'em short and to thepoint
(11:25:51 AM) jimbodude: alright. next week then? and we'll decide on permanent schedule then?
(11:26:10 AM) totallymaxed: ok
(11:26:18 AM) Zaerc: fine with me
(11:26:19 AM) TSCHAKeee: all I'd really want is just a small set of stuff to work on for the next build.
(11:26:22 AM) tkmedia_2: sounds good
(11:26:34 AM) jimbodude: I'll do the leg work before the meeting. I need a bit of help with scheduling - I think we missed some people this week because of how I did things.
(11:26:59 AM) Zaerc: maybe sundays is better for some?
(11:27:01 AM) tkmedia_2: be nice to have jondecker here
(11:27:17 AM) totallymaxed: or evenings his time
(11:27:29 AM) totallymaxed: what timezone is he in?
(11:27:32 AM) TSCHAKeee: that's the other thing too, the one thing we DO NOT need on this project is burnout
(11:27:46 AM) totallymaxed: Agreed
(11:27:47 AM) Zaerc: totallymaxed: if you like having these meetings at 3am...
(11:28:02 AM) TSCHAKeee: this project has the highest potential burnout and turnover rate in the history of time :P
(11:28:12 AM) totallymaxed: :-)
(11:28:26 AM) jimbodude: well, I think this meeting is much more intense than what we'll have going forward to begin with... I imagine a 15 minute check in every week or two once we get all the big stuff hashed out.
(11:28:38 AM) totallymaxed: Zaerc: but what timezone is jondecker in? Anyone know?
(11:28:53 AM) TSCHAKeee: wanna say US/Eastern
(11:29:09 AM) totallymaxed: maybe we can vary the time so that people get a more agreeable slot
(11:29:16 AM) Zaerc: totallymaxed: I reckon somewhere between GMT-7 and GMT-9
(11:29:16 AM) jimbodude: alright - so next week. can someone schedule a time for us? someone who knows our devs a bit better than me preferably?
(11:29:20 AM) Zaerc: or around
(11:29:38 AM) tkmedia_2: btw good job jimbodude
(11:29:42 AM) TSCHAKeee: yes
(11:29:44 AM) totallymaxed: seconded
(11:29:45 AM) TSCHAKeee: second that
(11:29:48 AM) jimbodude: I do what I can.
(11:29:57 AM) Zaerc: I think the time was good
(11:30:15 AM) hari: yup
(11:30:15 AM) TSCHAKeee: dlewis: thanks for the page.
(11:30:16 AM) Zaerc: maybe an hour or so later
(11:30:32 AM) TSCHAKeee: yeah, that way I can waaaaaaaaaaaake up
(11:30:40 AM) Zaerc: so TSCHAKeee can come on time;^)
(11:30:48 AM) Zaerc: heh beat me to it
(11:30:56 AM) TSCHAKeee: hehehe
(11:30:59 AM) totallymaxed: :-)
(11:31:41 AM) jimbodude: alright. I think we're done? anything else?
(11:32:07 AM) jimbodude: can one of you grab the transcript and plop it here for me - http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php?title=20090415Transcript&action=edit -
(11:32:08 AM) Zaerc: not that I can think of atm
(11:32:25 AM) jimbodude: it comes out all silly if I use mibbit...
(11:32:32 AM) Zaerc: I don't have logging on...
(11:32:44 AM) totallymaxed: Nope...good job jimbodude
(11:32:45 AM) jimbodude: haha there's one way to avoid writing docs... :P