Difference between revisions of "20090519Transcript"

Latest revision as of 15:03, 23 August 2009

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[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:00] Created This channel was created on 04/18/2009 01:36:16 PM.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:01] <dlewis> nice
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:07] <dlewis> welcome jimbodude
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:11] <dlewis> you may begin ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:14] <jimbodude> morning.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:26] <jimbodude> lucky me :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:44] <jimbodude> ok, first - a few follow-ups from last meeting.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:49] Join TSCHAKeee has joined this channel (n=TSCHAKee@c-65-96-166-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net).
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:50] <jimbodude> any issues with the minutes?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:04:51] <TSCHAKeee> am ere
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:05:01] <dlewis> word
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:05:04] <TSCHAKeee> non issues with the minutes.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:05:05] <dlewis> good crowd
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:05:55] <jimbodude> ok, if any come up - let me know.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:06:09] <tkmedia_> I just want to great job guys
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:06:23] <tkmedia_> say
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:06:31] <jimbodude> any additions/changes to today's agenda? http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/20090519Agenda -
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:06:46] <jondecker76> jimbodude, I have a last-minute addition
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:06:46] <possy> DVD Install => blocker for beta?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:06:48] <dlewis> jimbodude: don't think so
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:06:55] <dlewis> (guess not)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:07:06] <jondecker76> discussion of mythtv tv_shows_* directory structure
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:07:15] <jimbodude> ok.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:07:33] <totallymaxed> I think DVD install is pretty important for Beta personally
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:07:47] <jondecker76> i agree on the DVD install for beta
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:07:53] <dlewis> I agree
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:08:01] <possy> totallymaxed, do you have any resources that you can throw at the DVD install process?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:08:32] <totallymaxed> yes...possibly
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:08:37] <jimbodude> ok added.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:08:57] <jimbodude> let's follow up with the stuff from last meeting quickly, then dive into those items.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:08:57] <TSCHAKeee> cool
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:06] <totallymaxed> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:09] <Zaerc> I think it is pretty futile to build a dvd for a beta
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:25] <jimbodude> does someone have logging on, by the way? so we can grab a transcript at the end?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:28] <TSCHAKeee> why? we need to test the process and make sure it works
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:34] <Zaerc> but I guess I will leave you guys to figure that out on your own
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:50] <possy> TSCHAKeee, ACK
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:53] <tkmedia_> jimbo i have logging on
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:09:57] <jimbodude> First item - from Hari last week - standardized testing of all components. any progress or comments on this?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:10:11] <jimbodude> thanks tkmedia_.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:10:25] <TSCHAKeee> this hasn't been worked on. I don
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:10:44] <TSCHAKeee> ...erm, wouldn't know where to begin.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:10:54] <jimbodude> ok, do we still think that is a worth-while thing to do? does anyone want to start to tackle it?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:11:04] <jondecker76> i think it should be more of a long term goal, to standardize testing
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:11:20] <TSCHAKeee> yes it is a worthwhile thing to do, we'll figure this stuff out in the medium to long term
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:11:44] <totallymaxed> bringing standardised testing now sounds like a massive project in its own right
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:11:52] <jimbodude> ok - well, someone needs to put the infrastructure in place - maybe we could decide who that should be and what it should/should not look like? or shall we deffer?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:12:30] <TSCHAKeee> defer until after this release.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:12:33] <TSCHAKeee> we still have more to learn
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:12:44] <jimbodude> I agree, any other opinions?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:12:55] <dlewis> I agree with TSCHAKeee
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:13:03] <jondecker76> i agree as well
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:13:08] <jimbodude> ok. that sounds good for now.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:13:18] <tkmedia_> yes but everyone shpould keep an eye as they go through stuff
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:13:19] <jimbodude> next topic - 0810 release scheduling.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:13:55] <jimbodude> progress on scheduling? any target dates? milestones?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:14:30] * jimbodude listens to crickets
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:14:44] <TSCHAKeee> hm
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:14:46] <possy> I have cleaned up lots of tickets to point to the right milestones (imho)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:14:56] <TSCHAKeee> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:15:01] <TSCHAKeee> *thumbs-through-them*
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:15:10] <possy> We currently have 6 or even 7 (with dvd install) open tickets for Beta
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:15:32] <jimbodude> ok. a more fundamental question - do we have the right milestones - i.e. are they fine grained enough?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:15:33] <possy> some of them look like they already are completed, jondecker76 might has more say in some of them
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[Tue May 19 2009] [10:15:56] <possy> jimbodude, we will have some additional milestones for rc's imho
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:15:57] <jondecker76> i looked through mine and all open ones still have some things that need done
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:10] <jondecker76> i may change the milestones on them to RC though
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:16] <possy> jondecker76, would you mind maybe detailing what really needs to get done.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:21] <possy> and what is already working
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:32] <TSCHAKeee> we're doing pretty well, 28 open tickets for 0810, and all of em look pretty small.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:41] <jondecker76> most of them are features, so nothing really blocking on those
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:43] <jimbodude> ok. so it sounds like possy has that pretty well under control - thanks.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:52] <jondecker76> just one that I feel is a blocker, thats improving the backup system
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:16:56] <jimbodude> and from what I've seen - it looks like bug reporting is getting better.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:17:02] <TSCHAKeee> yes
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:17:21] <jimbodude> ok - do we need to talk about the backup today?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:17:47] <jondecker76> its detailed pretty well in the ticket
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:17:51] <possy> yep
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:18:21] <jimbodude> ok. so how about release dates - do we have any target dates? do we want to make/adjust some?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:18:27] <possy> no
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:18:43] <jimbodude> even if we don't make them public...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:18:49] <possy> no
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:19:27] <TSCHAKeee> not yet
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:19:32] <totallymaxed> what about the problem recently with sqlCVS etc...how to protect against that? Is that worth some discussion?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:19:43] <possy> I feel that this release has to many pitfalls, and we have to many unknowns. We have the blockers for the beta. Let's get the beta out, and see how users reacht.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:19:51] <possy> totallymaxed, I am in the middle of that.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:09] <jimbodude> ok. so no release schedule for now - deffer until beta. good nuf?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:15] <TSCHAKeee> yup
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:16] <possy> yep
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:21] <jondecker76> re:sqlCVS - the best we can do is make sure we all follow a standard protocol of making sure we run a validation before our commits
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:33] <TSCHAKeee> yup
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:43] <TSCHAKeee> somehow FK_Users_Maintainer got set to 1 on a bunch of records
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:44] <dlewis> as an FYI, I plan to reach out to a few people on the forum that I've noticed have skill-sets to help us out (PHP masters, etc...). We'll see how it goes...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:53] <possy> jondecker76, even that does not guard against failure, as has been proven by tkmedia
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:20:59] <TSCHAKeee> and it caused a massive clusterfuck when we tried to remove the real cause of the problem.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:12] <TSCHAKeee> dlewis: good.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:18] <jimbodude> shall we add sqlCVS to the agenda, or is it under control?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:20] <tkmedia_> ya i am good at braking stuff
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:25] <possy> TSCHAKeee, it seems sqlCVS is alive again.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:26] <jondecker76> would the problem have been caught before hand if a diff was run first?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:32] <possy> tkmedia_, again, it was not your fault.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:32] <TSCHAKeee> possy: good.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:34] <TSCHAKeee> whew
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:41] <possy> jondecker76, no
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:21:56] <TSCHAKeee> there was nothing in the batches to correlate what had happened
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:06] <jondecker76> interesting
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:08] <TSCHAKeee> at least, i couldn't find any.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:15] <jimbodude> ok - next item - Bug reporting.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:17] <possy> jondecker76, I fixed a hefty bug in rubyCodes.php last night
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:25] <possy> jondecker76, that might help in the future
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:37] <jondecker76> great, i will check svn and see what it was
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:42] * possy did not really fix it, but put some duct tape around it
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:50] <jimbodude> Looks like everyone has improved bug reporting - by both reporting more things, and making better reports.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:22:55] <TSCHAKeee> yup
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:23:11] <jimbodude> has anyone had time to review my work on http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Bug_Reporting ? There are probably some pretty big holes...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:23:31] <jimbodude> One of which - I need to make it more LinuxMCE-specific.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:23:44] <jimbodude> any other comments on bug reporting in general or that work?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:24:25] <jimbodude> ok then. I'll continue on that track.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:24:37] <TSCHAKeee> cool
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:24:52] <jimbodude> possy: next item is yours - taking care of milestones. sounds like you're well on your way there
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:25:05] <possy> looks like it
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:25:34] <jimbodude> ok, anything in particular we need to know?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:25:36] <possy> one note on your document re bug reporting: Try to not to write too much. People tend not to read articles that are too long ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:25:55] <jimbodude> ok.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:25:56] <possy> jimbodude, on the milestones? no, not really.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:25:59] <possy> I discovered
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:26:18] <possy> that you can easily move a whole bunch of tickets over to a new milestone (after the fact that I did it manually) ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:26:53] <jimbodude> next item - high importance defects (not features). whos got some?
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[Tue May 19 2009] [10:27:02] <jimbodude> (we'll get to installer and backup in a minute)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:27:30] <jondecker76> IR/GSD bugs
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:28:01] <tkmedia_> I am sure if i test my sony chenger there are some lingering ones
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:28:05] <jondecker76> I am working on them, things have just gotten really busy over the last few weeks, so my progress is slowing to a crawl at the moment
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:28:10] <possy> jondecker76, that seems to the biggest one, after the USB stuff got fixed thanks to uplink
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:28:35] <jondecker76> yes, I will get to it - just waiting for my break from work to come up
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:28:52] <jimbodude> ok. anything you need help with there jondecker76?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:29:03] <totallymaxed> uplink by the way was working a long day yesterday...so is not able to join us
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:29:09] <jondecker76> not really, just a lot of time-consuming testing and debugging
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:29:42] <possy> what is everybody elses take on MythTV stability?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:29:43] <TSCHAKeee> we need to get uplink a beer for solving the serial converter bug in HAL. :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:03] <possy> i.e. ticket #195
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:14] <TSCHAKeee> MythTV is _very_ stable for me
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:18] <jondecker76> i have some idea on myth stability
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:25] <TSCHAKeee> I use an HDHomeRun and a WinTV PVR-USB2
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:27] <totallymaxed> he he...uplink <glug> drinks your health ;-)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:30] <jondecker76> but its been very very stable for most everyone I've talked to
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:50] <possy> jondecker76, could talk to chris_HGAIT about his problems?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:55] <dlewis> possy: what's your opinion on it?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:30:58] <jimbodude> possy: I have not read 195. right now - my MythTV_Plugin causes the router to reload every 5-15 minutes. once the router hits the 200 reload limit, mythbackend runs fine on its own.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:02] <jondecker76> yes, I will follow up with him some more
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:23] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: i do notice an interesting bug where mythtv shows are showing up twice if they get stored on my USB disk...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:29] <possy> dlewis, I don't use MythTV, as MythTV and bad reception is a recipe for disaster. And I prefer VDR for the settop box like appearance.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:42] <dlewis> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:52] <dlewis> hence your query
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:53] <jondecker76> ok, i've noted both mythtv bugs and will follow up on them
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:58] <TSCHAKeee> us americans can't use VDR.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:31:59] <possy> k
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:06] <jimbodude> ok thanks jondecker76.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:13] * possy pats TSCHAKeee on the head - it will be okay...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:23] <totallymaxed> TSCHAKeee: you can use vdr...but its not that easy
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:24] <TSCHAKeee> that's okay, we can out-schedule you
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:27] <TSCHAKeee> hehehehe :P :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:30] Quit simnet has left this server ("Leaving").
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:35] <jimbodude> next item - critical features outstanding?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:49] <possy> Pizza ordering from the Orbiter
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:54] <dlewis> lol
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:32:54] <totallymaxed> :-)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:07] <jimbodude> robotic beer retriever...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:09] <dlewis> jimbodude: microphones on the webpads
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:11] <TSCHAKeee> yes, and where is my Giggidy button? :P
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:19] <dlewis> i beleive tkmedia_ found something interesting the other day
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:20] <jondecker76> do we have plans to remove Remote-Assistance features?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:20] <totallymaxed> ZWave Pizza oven template?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:27] <dlewis> jondecker76: why remove it?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:30] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: no, they are staying in.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:35] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: we just need to re-enable it.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:36] <jondecker76> it crashes orbiter currently
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:39] <jondecker76> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:53] <TSCHAKeee> it works _very_ well, it was just disabled because of one feature
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:33:58] <jimbodude> ok, any comments on microphones on webpads?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:34:05] * dlewis plans to look into it Remote-Assitance
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:34:15] <jondecker76> I think we should also do Linux orbiter build to make an Ubuntu deb
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:34:18] <TSCHAKeee> jimbodude: lots of stuff to deal with there, not gonna be easy.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:34:25] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: agreed
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:34:32] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: make a series of alien-able packages
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:34:43] <jondecker76> yes, that would be great
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:34:48] <jimbodude> agreed - from what I saw when I looked into it - overwhelming. I would not call it critical.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:05] <jimbodude> that would be very nice.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:14] * dlewis steps off soap box and walks to the back of the room...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:18] <jimbodude> someone want to look into that?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:28] * TSCHAKeee watches all the eyes point to me
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:40] <TSCHAKeee> uh
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:41] <jondecker76> sure, TSCHAKeee will do it :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:43] <TSCHAKeee> :P
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:47] <jimbodude> perfect :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:35:58] <TSCHAKeee> if i may interject.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:36:04] <TSCHAKeee> I am working on the Generic HID handler
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:36:17] <TSCHAKeee> it'll be the first new major piece of code in orbiter.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:36:36] <TSCHAKeee> but essentially, it should allow for the GYR3101US and other HID based remotes that emit special keys to work.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:37:01] <jondecker76> for prosperity's sake, lets make a trac ticket on it for now so It doesn't get lost
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:37:05] <jimbodude> anything else? next stop - DVD install - blocker, or not? how difficult to implement?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:37:31] <TSCHAKeee> right now, it relies on a vmware installation
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:37:41] <jondecker76> I wouldn't exactly call it a blocker, but it will need done eventually anyways... and it does need thorough testing
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:37:51] <jondecker76> and it would attract a much larger beta user base
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:38:02] <TSCHAKeee> we have _no_ idea what needs to be done to it
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:38:07] <jimbodude> I would say blocker - mostly because of the need to test.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:38:09] <possy> hari's suggestion on the DVD install was, to get rid of the VMWare way, and use chroot'ed stuff instead.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:38:31] <TSCHAKeee> because the build system has been modified substantially since we started, mostly by Zaerc.. he would be the one who would be able to comment on that....
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:38:41] <TSCHAKeee> if we can do that, then cool.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:39:02] <totallymaxed> DVD install could be a repos with installer...instead of a Live Disc type install like 0710...possy suggested this earlier
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:39:17] <jondecker76> the advantage of the vmware way is ease of testing.. savign states and reverting back to them
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:39:41] <totallymaxed> That would be a simpler proposition than an 0710 style DVD
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:39:49] <possy> totallymaxed, having the repo on the DVD saves a lot of hammering on deb.lmce.org
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:40:01] <jondecker76> totallymaxed, that is a very interesting idea
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:40:05] <jimbodude> I would like to see us use the package installers, use a local DVD repo
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:40:25] <possy> jimbodude, what package installer are you talking about?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:40:57] <jimbodude> dpkg / apt-get... just use a modified version of the install scripts we have now, but point the repos to the DVD...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:40:59] <Zaerc> I have not modified the build system substantially
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:41:03] <jimbodude> unless I'm way off base...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:41:21] <Zaerc> in fact I have tried to keep it as close to the way it was as I could
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:41:30] <TSCHAKeee> Zaerc: okay.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:41:32] <possy> jimbodude, at the moment, we can't have a meta deb.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:41:48] <totallymaxed> jimbodude: yep thats what i was thinking too
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:41:54] <tkmedia_> funny comment in main channel
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:41:55] <tkmedia_> [10:19] <mandingoceo> so if you have to reinstall from scratch just copy the cache back after a fresh install and then everything takes about 20 min to install
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:42:02] <possy> jimbodude, I am not saying that it is not possible, but lots of work.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:42:09] <tkmedia_> any relevance
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:42:30] <possy> tkmedia_, not really. It takes me 20-30 minutes to install from my local buildserver repo
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:42:33] <jimbodude> possy: right - but we still know what packages to install - we don't need a meta-deb... that would be neat, but we don't need it right now.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:42:35] <tkmedia_> k
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:19] <totallymaxed> so doing the same from DVD based repos would be marginally slower but still way faster than a remote repos
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:25] <possy> jimbodude, we have too many things going on inbetween. There is a reason, why the current installer works the way it does. We might be able to change that, but that task is no small one.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:29] <possy> totallymaxed, correct.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:42] <totallymaxed> and it would make the whole thing easier for more people to get involved with
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:43] <possy> totallymaxed, especially if we add ubuntu stuff onto the DVD
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:47] <jimbodude> ok - so lets step back a moment out of this technical discussion - and go for the simple question - blocker, or not?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:48] <possy> yes
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:43:57] <totallymaxed> possy right
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:44:08] <totallymaxed> yes
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:44:13] <TSCHAKeee> yes
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:44:33] <Zaerc> not
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:44:57] <TSCHAKeee> Zaerc: am just curious, why not? what should we do?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:45:01] <possy> More and more people are trying the alpha's. People don't seem to be too afraid of using the alpha based software these days
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:45:01] <jimbodude> Zaerc: seems you're in the minority - can you expand a bit?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:45:16] <Zaerc> I just think it's not a blocker for the beta
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:45:46] <TSCHAKeee> okay.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:00] <jondecker76> but how and when would we test a dvd installer then?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:02] <totallymaxed> my view is that if we go Beta with the installprocess as it is now... we will end up spending 80% of our time helping people do the install
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:08] <Zaerc> there already is an installer that mostly works, except for the frequent oopses
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:15] <jimbodude> Zaerc: I don't think the feature is a blocker for beta - but my worry would be testing... there will be plenty of good technical people available to test in beta stages - release, not so much... those people don't even read the FAQ...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:19] <totallymaxed> what we want is people to install and test the actual functionality and stability
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:23] <possy> The main problem with the current installer seem to be download problems.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:38] <Zaerc> I don't see a dvd as a requirment for a beta
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:46:58] <TSCHAKeee> not a... requirement... but it will help, and we do need to test that part of it
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:47:03] <TSCHAKeee> we haven't done anything with it at all
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:47:24] <Zaerc> if it's not a requirment then it's not a blocker imo
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:47:52] <possy> imho, the beta should contain what eventually will be released. If we don't have a rudimentary DVD installer, we won't have a DVD installer in release.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:48:01] <jimbodude> I would expect the beta to be as close to release as possible.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:48:08] <possy> jimbodude, aye
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:48:14] <jimbodude> and I would expect an installer in the release...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:48:16] <Zaerc> a beta is a test version, you're confused with a release candidate
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:48:35] <jimbodude> no, release candidate is ready to go out the door...
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:48:47] <Zaerc> indeed
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:48:49] <totallymaxed> possy Im in agreement on that
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:49:29] <totallymaxed> the beta should be as close to release as possible I agree
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:49:37] <jimbodude> it seems we are mostly in agreement. can we have a quick poll - blocker, not.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:49:43] <jimbodude> blocker.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:49:44] <possy> blocker
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:49:46] <jondecker76> I also expect a beta to have a pretty close featureset as the release
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:49:52] <jondecker76> blocker
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:50:11] <Zaerc> suit yourselves
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:50:12] <totallymaxed> blocker
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:50:26] <TSCHAKeee> blocker
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:50:40] <jimbodude> ok. someone want to head up that effort?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:50:40] <dlewis> blocker
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:50:54] <possy> jimbodude, didn't totallymaxed already signed up?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:51:14] <totallymaxed> Hmmm...well I guess I did to some extent :-(
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:51:32] <jimbodude> oh, I missed that. you still ok with that totallymaxed?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:51:33] <TSCHAKeee> poor uplink
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:51:54] <totallymaxed> ...thats me with a lot of Uplink ;-)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:52:15] <totallymaxed> yeah... we'll commit to that
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:52:33] <jimbodude> ok - jondecker76 - next topic is yours. MythTV recording directory structure.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:53:20] <jimbodude> jondecker76: can you introduce what is going on there?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:53:23] <jondecker76> ok, please see http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/jondecker76/tv_shows_madness-1.png
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:53:46] <jondecker76> right now, a sepparate tv_shows_* directory is made for each media directory
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:53:57] <jondecker76> this gets messy really quick, as my screenshot illustrates
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:54:23] <jondecker76> the reasoning is that technically, each media director (myth front end) can have its own recording schedule
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:54:40] <jondecker76> and with a single directory, this could cause filename conflicts
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:54:41] <jimbodude> hehe (for the log - jondecker76 has 9 tv_shows_* directories in the media file sync view of the web admin - and it looks ridiculous)
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:54:58] <jondecker76> but in my experience, this would rarely, if ever happen
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:55:16] <jondecker76> its even worse, that when I rip a dvd and I am prompted for a directory name, I see all 9 of them each time
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:55:32] <jimbodude> jondecker76: have you determined if this file name overlap restriction is true of the newer myth version?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:55:33] <jondecker76> I would like to see ALL mythtv recordings go into /home/public/data/mythtv
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:55:50] <possy> jondecker76, thats like VDR in 710
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:03] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: but then we don't see them in videos
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:06] <jondecker76> I don't think it was ever a mythtv restriction
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:24] <possy> TSCHAKeee, yes you do, if you modify UpdateMedia startup
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:28] <jondecker76> ok, how about /home.public/data/videos/mythtv?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:38] <TSCHAKeee> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:43] <possy> jondecker76, no need
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:48] <jondecker76> i would prefer it not to be its own subdir
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:49] <jondecker76> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:56:54] <jondecker76> what does everyone think?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:57:20] <possy> i am for a dedicated pvr subdir structure under data
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:57:20] <totallymaxed> sounds logical
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:57:37] <totallymaxed> good idea
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:57:41] <jimbodude> I do not like the way its done now - very confusing for the end user, and doesn't seem to enable any features. one dir sounds great.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:57:43] <jondecker76> how about a pvr directory that both myth and vdr could use... depending on whats installed?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:57:48] <possy> especially, as you are able to record audio and video with vdr
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:57:56] <possy> jondecker76, aye
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:03] <jimbodude> even better.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:05] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: videos/tv_shows ?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:11] <jondecker76> what does vdr use currently?
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:23] <totallymaxed> VDRTV
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:27] <possy> jondecker76, in 710 we have VDRTV under data
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:37] <TSCHAKeee> sigh
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:38] <possy> in 810 we are using the default /var/lib/video.00
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:39] <jondecker76> TSCHAKeee - I agree with possy that we don't make it a subdir of Videos, and modify UpdateMedia
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:39] <TSCHAKeee> grrrr
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:40] <totallymaxed> but thats not good either
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:42] Join qball4 has joined this channel (n=qball4@24.14.61.250).
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:58:52] <possy> jondecker76, we don't need to modify UpdateMedia
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:01] <possy> jondecker76, TSCHAKeee, we just need to modify the startup
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:07] <TSCHAKeee> jondecker76: i want the tv shows to show up under videos, and modify the file browser appropriately to show them better.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:07] <TSCHAKeee> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:09] <jondecker76> even better
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:24] <possy> TSCHAKeee, they end up in the video browser, no matter where they are
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:27] <jondecker76> ok, so this would satisfy everything then
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:34] <jimbodude> in my opinion - the recorded stuff is different that what I put in videos anyway... and should be separate.
[Tue May 19 2009] [10:59:56] <jondecker76> i'm with jimbodude on this one, but I don't mind either way really
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:00:13] <jimbodude> ok, is there any discontent with that solution - technical issues or otherwise?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:00:26] <jondecker76> re: directory name, we should pick something agnostic in case more PVR softwares emerge in the future
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:00:34] <jondecker76> i.e. /home/public/data/pvr
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:00:35] <possy> jondecker76, I am not using any hierarchie for my stuff, I just choose public for ripped stuff, and use the browser to get to it based on the tags
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:00:54] <possy> so I really don't care that much, but I think having it under a dedicated dir is cleaner solution
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:01:14] <possy> especially as VDR has the nasty behaviour to delete stuff when it needs room ...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:01:19] <jondecker76> so can we agree that we will work together so that both VDR and Mythtv use the data/pvr directory?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:01:26] <jimbodude> ok - jondecker76 - this is also yours, deferred from last meeting: Discuss possibility of running our own new_install script on www.linuxmce.org and assigning our own installation ID's
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:01:40] <jondecker76> and I will update the scripts to create the symlinks to other storage devices?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:01:48] <TSCHAKeee> yup
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:01:52] <possy> jondecker76, i am for it. let s see what totallymaxed new vdr installer does
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:02:05] <jondecker76> ok, I will start work on it
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:02:14] <jondecker76> re: new install script
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:02:25] <totallymaxed> jondecker76: sounds good to me
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:02:37] <jondecker76> I don't have much faith that the plutohome website will be around much longer..
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:02:59] <jondecker76> and I think we should do our own new_install script to hand out new installation numbers
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:03:54] <totallymaxed> jondecker76: do we need installation no's?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:04:23] <possy> totallymaxed, yes
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:04:34] <jondecker76> if we ever plan on finishing off the possibility of sharing installations...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:04:35] <possy> not now
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:04:37] <totallymaxed> we use them for dianemo...but in the 'Post Pluto' world do they make sense?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:04:40] <possy> but later on.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:04:55] <TSCHAKeee> totallymaxed: how else will we be able to do video phone calls between houses? ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:04:55] <possy> I think they are helpful for adding functionality later on
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:05:06] <TSCHAKeee> totallymaxed: or connecting houses together...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:05:07] <possy> TSCHAKeee, LDAP
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:05:09] * possy runs
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:05:11] <jondecker76> I think we need them
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:05:26] <totallymaxed> possy TSCHAKeee jondecker76 ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:05:30] <jondecker76> but I also think we need to take over the script
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:05:56] <jondecker76> now its just how to do it... should we start all over at 0?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:05] <jondecker76> if not, how do we gracefully sync to plutohome's db?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:30] <jondecker76> on option would be to create 2 new scripts on our server
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:30] <totallymaxed> jondecker76: you mean for previous installs?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:45] <dlewis> i agree with jondecker76
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:50] <dlewis> we might want to use our stuff
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:54] <dlewis> and not pluto's page
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:54] <jondecker76> on script to sync with what plutohome handed out
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:06:58] <TSCHAKeee> we do two things:
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:10] <TSCHAKeee> (1) grab the next number from plutohome
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:12] <jondecker76> and if plutohome site is down, then call our own version, which will continue on
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:19] <TSCHAKeee> use that as starting point
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:37] <totallymaxed> TSCHAKeee: why not just start our own sequence now?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:38] <TSCHAKeee> (2) and we push an update script which grabs installation #s and pushes them to our db
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:40] <jimbodude> is the installation ID an integer, or can we just put a letter in front...?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:46] <TSCHAKeee> it's an integer
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:51] <jimbodude> ok.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:53] <TSCHAKeee> of course, we can start our own sequence too
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:07:59] <possy> I am for our own sequence starting at 1000000
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:08:07] <TSCHAKeee> sounds good
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:08:10] <jondecker76> http://plutohome.com/new_installation.php
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:08:29] <dlewis> i agree with possy
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:08:32] <jondecker76> for those that havne't called it manually...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:08:36] <totallymaxed> I would suggest moving to our own infrastructure for all of this asap
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:02] <jondecker76> i agree, we need to be 100% self-reliant
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:02] <dlewis> does anyone know if hari has space/resources for all of this?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:05] <possy> iirc the installation id is the last thing where we are still using Pluto's infrastructure
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:14] <possy> dlewis, he has
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:16] <TSCHAKeee> are we using our own geoIP stuff now?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:18] <totallymaxed> possy right
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:20] <dlewis> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:25] <jondecker76> dlewis, it would be a single PHP file addition
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:27] <possy> TSCHAKeee, jondecker76 did some stuff
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:31] <TSCHAKeee> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:38] <jondecker76> yes, we are using our own GeoIP stuff now :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:48] <jondecker76> plus I updated the GeoIP database to most current
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:53] <totallymaxed> CHT hosts it own installation ID's by the way
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:09:56] <possy> TSCHAKeee, I modified the installer to use Kubuntu's information, and jondecker76 did the right thing
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:10:23] <jondecker76> possy, your addition will still be called if the geoip script is down for some reason
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:10:38] <possy> jondecker76, ;) np I am fine with your work!
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:10:47] <possy> totallymaxed, did you start with 0?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:02] <jondecker76> but it is live in the installer now, so it looks like the installation id thing is all that remains
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:03] <totallymaxed> Hmmm... no ;-)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:07] <jimbodude> ok - so sounds like we're coming to agreement. quick poll - LinuxMCE install script, or leave it.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:11] <jimbodude> LinuxMCE
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:18] <possy> LinuxMCE
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:26] <jondecker76> jimbodude, i have a few more points on this...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:26] <dlewis> LinuxMCE
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:39] <dlewis> jondecker76: go ahead
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:43] <jimbodude> alright, sorry - didn't mean to cut you off. continue.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:11:58] <jondecker76> shoudl we include a vendor-specific part of the ID?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:12:14] <jondecker76> for example 0000-123456
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:12:23] <jondecker76> 0000* will be linuxmce specific
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:12:42] <jondecker76> 0001* for example could be dienemo specific
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:12:43] <jondecker76> etc
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:12:53] <jondecker76> then the ID numbers will still follow suit
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:13:05] <jondecker76> aside from the 4-digit identifier for example
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:13:27] <totallymaxed> jondecker76: I think we will stick with out orn ID's as we already have system in the filed
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:13:30] <jondecker76> this would allow LMCE to talk to specific LMCE vendors in the future possibly
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:13:32] <TSCHAKeee> i was going to try and use the installation #s as a phone number for the house.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:14:24] <dlewis> TSCHAKeee: phone number, meaning?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:14:25] <jondecker76> ok, so foregoing any modifications to the installation numbers themselves, we all agree that we should be hosting the script?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:14:31] <jondecker76> and that we should start with what number?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:14:53] <jondecker76> dlewis: call LMCE ID 123456
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:14:55] <jondecker76> for example
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:01] <TSCHAKeee> dlewis: if you dial it on the dial pad, it trunks out to an IAX server we host, that will allow you to call another LMCE house
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:04] Join uplink-lmce has joined this channel (n=uplink-l@host81-137-34-33.in-addr.btopenworld.com).
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:07] <uplink-lmce> hi :D
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:16] <TSCHAKeee> dlewis: we do this so that when we have Video conferencing, we have a mechanism for it
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:17] <jimbodude> I don't see a problem starting with 0... there's nothing tying installs together right now is there?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:18] <jondecker76> welcome uplink!
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:25] <jondecker76> not currently
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:15:32] <dlewis> TSCHAKeee: nice idea
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:16:08] * possy wonders how uplink-lmce will react, once he knows what totallymaxed committed to... ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:16:15] <TSCHAKeee> but we need something that can easily be (1) dialed from orbiter pad, (2) filtered to route to our IAX trunk
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:16:23] <jimbodude> it would be really neat if we had some data collection mechanism with the install too - like "tell us who you are" or grab hardware data - so we can have some user statistics.... but that's a little ways off I think.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:16:52] <possy> My reasoning for starting with a large number is would be, that all installation IDs have the same length (well at least the next 9mio)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:17:03] <totallymaxed> possy I got in early and let uplink-lmce in on the secret ;-
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:17:04] <jimbodude> so we have an install number, a name, and hardware data. then we can count users, decide what hardware is most important to support, etc.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:17:21] <possy> totallymaxed, I was j/k :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:17:35] <dlewis> jimbodude: definitely makes sense... we gotta look into privacy issues across countries...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:18:11] <jimbodude> yes, of course. privacy is always an issue - but I'm talking about minimal and voluntary data. a big project still.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:18:30] <jimbodude> and none of it public, of course.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:19:10] <jimbodude> anything else on this topic?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:19:21] <jimbodude> install ids - not data collection
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:19:38] <possy> install IDs - aye - data collection - nay
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:19:39] <TSCHAKeee> i'm for possy's sequence bias.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:20:15] <jondecker76> ok, se we roll our own ID's and start with 1000000 - agreed?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:20:19] <jondecker76> I'll take the task
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:20:22] <jimbodude> I'm not worried about the start number - but I agree that we should have our own.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:20:28] <dlewis> i agree
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:20:52] <dlewis> jimbodude: let's document that start number and that JD has the task
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:21:07] <jimbodude> dlewis: it will be in the minutes, don't worry ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:21:10] * dlewis hopes jondecker76 likes the affinity JD
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:21:22] <jondecker76> ok, sounds good
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:21:36] <jimbodude> ok. who was working on LinuxFund and 501c3?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:22:08] <jimbodude> that is the next topic. get us up to speed.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:22:22] <jondecker76> also along those lines, I think we need to discuss the LMCE foundation idea
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:22:35] <jondecker76> we need a governing body
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:22:50] <jondecker76> especially if we are to ever accept donations etc
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:23:14] * dlewis is assisting to lead the 501c3 stuff
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:23:33] <jimbodude> ok dlewis. what's going on on that front?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:23:39] <dlewis> TSCHAKeee has the form and is planning to send it over to ddamron for review and signing
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:23:51] <possy> ddamron, did you receive anything yet
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:24:04] <dlewis> possy: it hasn't been sent yet.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:24:04] <dlewis> I will be in Boston in a couple of weekends and plan to review the form with Thom
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:24:10] <dlewis> before sending it over to ddamron
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:24:24] <dlewis> so, I plan to physically watch the form being mailed to ddamron :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:24:43] <dlewis> danielK has already signed it
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:24:46] <possy> hmm. ok. wasn't it suppose to be already filled out, and only waiting for a signature by ddamron.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:03] <TSCHAKeee> danielK's sig is on it
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:06] <TSCHAKeee> my sig is on it
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:19] <TSCHAKeee> ddamron's sig needs to be on it, then back to danielK's place for filing
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:20] <possy> why does it need to be reviewed?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:33] <TSCHAKeee> it doesn't.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:34] <possy> TSCHAKeee, put it in an envelope to Canada
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:41] <dlewis> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:45] <dlewis> then send it off then ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:25:51] <TSCHAKeee> *nod*
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:26:01] <possy> TODAY!
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:26:03] <dlewis> TSCHAKeee: who provided them money for the filing?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:26:04] <possy> ;)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:26:45] <dlewis> I believe its around $300 to register
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:26:56] <dlewis> ~$300
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:27:28] <dlewis> TSCHAKeee: contact me about that...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:27:30] <dlewis> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:27:31] <dlewis> next
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:27:34] <dlewis> LinuxFund
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:27:39] <dlewis> I've been speaking with those guys
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:27:48] <dlewis> I had a healthy convo about how they can assist us
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:27:49] <dlewis> in short
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:28:36] <dlewis> they may be able to provide funding to, and I quote: "certain areas that would require extensive support/man power in order to get us over the hump and make us a real player in this space"
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:28:56] <dlewis> now
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:29:10] <jondecker76> I'm all for getting some support money for the most active and/or in-need dev(s)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:29:48] <jimbodude> yep, I'm ok with paying the good people.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:29:57] <dlewis> jondecker76: I would love to give money to our devs, but it doesn't even have to go to our devs, it can go to external resources as well (if our devs are busy).
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:30:04] <dlewis> but yes,
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:30:07] <dlewis> our devs come first
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:30:25] <jondecker76> yes, or even purchase of equipment/devices for devs to support
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:30:51] <dlewis> we need to solidify what the major pain point for us is
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:31:01] <dlewis> I spoke with Thom and he mentioned the media plugin
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:31:01] <jimbodude> a slightly different approach - how about Google Summer of Code?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:31:04] <jondecker76> personally, I'm not in need, nor do I contribute near as much as some of these guys. But the ones that do fit the criteria should be compensated, IMO
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:31:36] <dlewis> media plugin and alternative Orbitors
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:31:43] <dlewis> jimbodude: I'll be looking into that as well
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:31:44] <jondecker76> Google SOC is a good idea and they have a good program... someone would have to do a lot of legwork though
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:31:47] <dlewis> we missed the deadline
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:32:10] <jondecker76> never too early to start for next year
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:32:16] <jimbodude> I know we missed this year - but they do it every year... :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:32:28] <dlewis> yea, it does require a lot of questions to be answered
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:32:30] <jimbodude> they pay the kids well too... it's like $5k...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:33:10] <dlewis> http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs#org_apply
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:33:15] <jimbodude> anyhow - so we need to pick a focus area to get LinuxFund to help - is that where we are now?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:33:42] <dlewis> jimbodude: yes
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:34:08] <dlewis> TSCHAKeee mentioned debugging the media plugin and alternative Orbitors
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:34:13] <jimbodude> ok. and what is the timeline we are looking at? are we on a schedule with them, or are they waiting on us?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:34:27] <dlewis> since a majority of people use media
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:34:37] <dlewis> and we need more obitor support
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:35:34] <dlewis> jimbodude: i've been conversing with them... I'm waiting to hear back from them on the ideas i gave them
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:35:38] <dlewis> I'll follow up again today
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:36:33] <jimbodude> ok. so is everyone in agreement on those two focus areas? or do we need to get more specific...?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:37:27] <jondecker76> another focus area would be in the installation ID/VPN stuff
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:37:45] <TSCHAKeee> *nod*
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:37:48] <dlewis> jondecker76: would that make is a "real player" in this space
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:37:51] <dlewis> ?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:37:54] <jimbodude> I'm not sure that's user-focused enough...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:38:12] <jondecker76> aren't we already the only player??
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:38:13] <jondecker76> :P
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:38:21] <dlewis> lol
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:38:25] <jimbodude> I like the orbiter alternatives the most... I think what we have is great - but most user complaints are on interface...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:38:25] <dlewis> I think TSCHAKeee idea on media and orbitor are huge pain points
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:38:32] <jondecker76> another possibility would be improved GSD
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:38:46] <jondecker76> so more people could make templates easier
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:39:05] <jondecker76> but the Media/Orbiter stuff is pretty high as you've pointed out
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:39:12] <dlewis> ok
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:39:18] <dlewis> I'll start with media and orbitor
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:39:22] <dlewis> and see how they respond
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:39:24] <tkmedia_> yes orbiters.... some how one orbiter doesnt ahndle eveyhting perfectly
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:39:44] <jimbodude> perfect. anything else on this topic?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:39:50] <jondecker76> as well as options to make orbiter FASTER
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:40:09] <jondecker76> like a syncronized local mysql database if the device has the housepower
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:40:17] <jondecker76> *horsepower
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:40:26] <jimbodude> last topic - meeting scheduling and asynchronous meeting capabilities.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:40:27] <dlewis> i like that idea
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:40:54] <tkmedia_> and a mobile MD 
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:41:10] <jondecker76> as well as a real-time rendering option
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:41:12] <jondecker76> etc
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:41:24] <jondecker76> yes, a web-based MD even
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:41:51] <tkmedia_> i want a MD in my car that syncronizes with the home
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:42:04] <dlewis> lol
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:42:04] <dlewis> nice
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:42:04] <jondecker76> but anyways, yes - a lot of options with those choices
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:42:13] <jimbodude> first - thank you dlewis for taking care of this meeting. I apologize that I was unable to reschedule the previous one due to a ridiculous amount of things happening in my life all at the same time.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:42:38] <dlewis> jimbodude: thanks for running the meeting
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:43:30] <jimbodude> next - scheduling is a bit of a pain over IRC - I propose a mailing list. This also gives us the ability to talk about things asynchronously, but out of the public eye. Especially useful for things that require followup - like this 501c3 effort and LinuxFund.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:43:41] <jondecker76> yes, thank you both
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:43:43] <jimbodude> thoughts?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:43:55] <jimbodude> jondecker76, dlewis: I do what I can.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:44:12] <dlewis> and you do it well :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:44:17] <dlewis> I agree
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:44:20] <dlewis> (with mailing list)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:44:26] <dlewis> Hari would be the guy for that.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:44:49] <jimbodude> do we have mailing lists in place already? or is this an "all-new" thing?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:46:06] <jimbodude> I'll take that as a "no" or a "nobody knows"...
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:46:39] <jimbodude> ok - so lets go with this - I'll be making a mailing list to help with meeting scheduling and followup items.
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:46:51] * TSCHAKeee idly wonders if the lurkers in this channel have anything to say? :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:47:10] <jimbodude> if you'd like to be on it, PM your e-mail address to me on the forum
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:47:29] <jimbodude> TSCHAKeee: I've been wondering the same thing... :)
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:47:52] <jimbodude> with that - the agenda is exhausted. Is there any other business?
[Tue May 19 2009] [11:48:26] <jondecker76> no, i think everything was covered quite well